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What exactly did Danny Ainge offer Michael Jordan for the 9th pick?

Chuck - Red's Army June 26, 2015 Draft 19 Comments

I’m still pretty steamed with the Celtics inability to move up in the draft. What’s the point of having all these assets if you aren’t going to use them?

It appears Danny Ainge tried to use the assets but Michael Jordan and the Hornets simply wouldn’t bite:

“They [the future picks] are worth a lot, [but] I think the draft is probably the time where they’re least valuable, simply because people get so caught up in players. Without mentioning names, there are some players that were drafted at certain spots [by teams] that turned down lots of draft picks that I just don’t think was smart on their part,” Ainge explained. “On draft day, typically those are hard deals to move. People get so caught up and get so in love with a specific player that that player in their minds becomes bigger than life.”

Ainge said that the team tried to get into the top three, but realized that was unrealistic. He said they were in regular communication with teams in spots from four through 15, and some discussions came very close to leading to a deal, but they never happened.

“I think they were just determined to take a guy that they liked. I think that they may regret end up not doing it in some of the cases,” Ainge said. “I think people make irrational choices in those situations, not knowing that a 2019 unprotected pick has great value.”

While Ainge referenced the 2019 pick, he didn’t lay out the offer. CSNNE’s Jimmy Toscano offers up this:

Heard Celtics offered 4 picks (at least 3 of them 1st-round) for No. 9. Both firsts yesterday, assume Dal protected and another protected.

— James Toscano (@Jimmy_Toscano) June 26, 2015

Four 1st round picks is a helluva offer to move up 7 spots. Here’s the kicker, Jordan probably could have taken Frank Kaminsky at 16. But like Ainge said, sometimes people fall in love with a player.

UPDATE:

Chris Forsberg reports the deal was even bigger:

According to sources, the Celtics’ final offer to the Hornets was a package featuring as many as six draft picks, including four potential first-round selections (a combination of picks from this draft and in the future).

bill_nair

Im not even mad at this. I was pissed watching Winslow still on the board knowing we could move into this spot (or have been there without a fun sweep by Lebron) but no point in overpaying the most incompetent organization in the league.

So…18 months until MJ trades Kaminsky?
- Micah Sharon
  
  18 months for Kaminsky and 6 months until the Kings trade WCS, like they did with Thomas Robinson…. and when that happens, the Celtics will be trading pennies on the dollar for him….
  - stephen
    
    call me crazy but i really think kaminsky will be a good player or at least a solid role player. good player for their system to play the 4 but they really need a rim protector. wcs will be fine and if they trade him i hope ainge really tries to get him. wcs is gonna be a more athletic tyson chandler that could potentially turn into a max defensive player.
    - Curt Hays
      
      Ha, please see my comment above in reference to Tyson. I hope you’re right.
      - stephen
        
        so you do or dont think kaminsky will be good? will he be an all star? probably not. but he can be a solid role player and starter. guy can knock down the perimeter shot, good mid range jumper, not great on defense tho. still i would have not taken him that high. i really thought they was going to take winslow which would have been the safest bet and they would have a two guard to replace stephenson. and i love tyson chandler. always thought he was very underrated same with pre injury prone noah (thibs ran that guy into the ground).
Richard Jensen

Hypothesis:

One of the reasons why it’s so hard to trade into the top ten is because those teams are usually persistent lottery dwellers with really bad front offices that don’t know how to make good decisions.

You think that, if the situation were reversed and Jordan was offering 4 picks for #9, that Ainge wouldn’t have taken that in a heartbeat?
- bill_nair
  
  Jordan was the perfect trade partner, he just did the typical Jordan thing. The more I’ve thought about it, 4-6 picks is alot for only ONE player so im a LTITLE happy Jordan turned it down.
  
  The greatest player of all time will be known by my kids as the dude who ran the Hornets into the ground. Amazing.
  - Richard Jensen
    
    The more Jordan does stuff like this, the more amazing it makes Jerry West look (and Bird, to a lesser extent).
- Curt Hays
  
  Yeah, Ainge totally would’ve done that…so he could draft 4 more guards or undersized PFs.
  - Richard Jensen
    
    Who’s done a better job running drafting and making personnel decisions? Jordan or Ainge?
    - Curt Hays
      
      Your point about “lottery dwellers” is something I wish I’d thought of myself. It is quite an insightful point to bring up. It actually has sent me off on a tangent of a dozen other considerations.
      
      Jordan is [in]famous for being atrocious in the draft. But I’m not sure what point you’re getting at with the rhetorical question.
      
      In the draft, I think Ainge is doing the best that anyone could with the crappy players he has to choose from. In trades, he is surprisingly good. However, in Free Agency…I can’t remember a good pickup. It’s a bunch of undersized or undertalented pickups.
      
      I was okay with taking the risk of Fab Melo, Shaq, and JO.
      
      Other than a few exceptions, Danny has been selecting undersized guys. That’s my whole point.
      - Richard Jensen
        
        Well, if your point is that Danny’s picking undersized guys, I guess you’ve got to sacrifice something when you’re picking in the mid-teens and up.
        
        And, honestly, size is somewhat overrated on the perimeter in this day and age.
        
        Provided the C’s can address their front court issues via FA & trades, I’m fine with them not drafting a big with a glaring weakness (e.g. slow, short arms, no defense, no offense, raw)
      - Curt Hays
        
        Totally agree with the draft issues. When you’re winning, you don’t get much to choose from in the draft. Danny knows this and simply strives to earn draft assets (tons of picks as well as picking the best player available if you can’t fill a need).
        
        I fully subscribe to the idea that there are not only 5 positions in basketball. There are at least a dozen, the success of which depends on the mix and optimal utilization by the coach. However, you MUST have diversity if you’re going to have a chance to win. We just don’t have diversity. Retaining an army of short perimeter defenders and tall jump-shooters means that we will lose the paint battles on both offense and defense.
        
        I think size is important for the SF spot, and you’ve got to be kidding me that we couldn’t have gotten ONE decent 7-footer since KG. Omer Asik would have been sufficient.
        
        I think Danny would have taken the 4 picks for that 9th pick. You never know what you’re going to get, and you are more likely to win 1 out of 4 times than you are 1 out of 1 time. It’s just smart.
        
        But how smart was Danny for offering that trade in the first place?
      - Richard Jensen
        
        Well, C’s did alright with a pretty unbalanced roster in the second half of the season–but as has been pointed out elsewhere, this is not the C’s opening day roster, and it’s likely to morph through a few more iterations before it ends up in a spot where sustained winning can be expected.
        
        Regarding decent seven footers, the thing is, either DA’s undervaluing them, or the rest of the league is overvaluing them. I honestly do not know what’s the case. For fifty years you couldn’t win consistently w/o a dominant C (Mikan/Russell/Chamberlain/Jabbar/Olajuwon/Shaq), unless you were Michael Jordan. Is that still the case? It doesn’t seem to be–but what’s the proper value for a good center? What does a good center have to be good at?
      - Curt Hays
        
        Certainly they did well with the likes of Bass, Crowder, and Jerebko running the floor. That team can neither match-up in a 7-game series, nor can it create significant match-up challenges for other teams. Bass and Crowder do well against guys smaller than they are as well as larger, but they can’t do that for a whole series.
        
        While it is a good reminder that this is not the opening day roster, I can’t recall (and I certainly could be forgetting guys) any significant deals Danny has made out of trading his undersized players.
        
        You are also very correct about 7-footers. I’d take Tristan Thompson if I knew he could rebound like that for a few more years. You know who else I’d take? Kris Humphries. Maybe another undersized guy can be like Tristan Thompson (Jordan Mickey), but we just haven’t seen it. If we had, Tristan wouldn’t be so unique.
        
        The value of a good center depends on who you have around him…on his team and against him. The 2015 Finals showed us that you don’t need a center if there’s no one to match him up against…however…
        
        I’m thinking of Tyson Chandler. He has been exactly what a center should be. He has one of the highest True Shooting percentages, if not the highest, of all time, and he’s a great defender. He takes good shots, and he clogs the paint. You must have a Tyson Chandler if you want to win with a guy like Dirk, Kelly, Bass, Sully, et al.
        
        Centers are overvalued (Varejao, Howard, Brook Lopez, Oden) primarly because they are so big and prone to injury. Getting a center who stays healthy and allows your other players to flourish…that’s max-contract stuff right there.
      - Richard Jensen
        
        ” I can’t recall (and I certainly could be forgetting guys) any
        significant deals Danny has made out of trading his undersized players.”
        
        Bear in mind that moves made from 2008-2012 were all about maintaining a championship contender. This is the first rebuild that DA’s overseen from start to finish.
        
        I’ll make this prediction: If the C’s land Harris, they’re not going to go after Love.
        
        I’ll also make this prediction: W/Harris or Love & a defensive upgrade at center, the Celtics will win over 55 games this year.
bill_nair

. .
stephen

i really want to know what all they a offered that was too high because we have a glutton of guards now. just stash in the d league and pick em up in two to three years.
Frank Aziza

I think Ainge needed the 9th pick to use as another package to trade up to the third pick

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